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Race and Racism in Education with Dr. Marvin Lynn

Race and Racism in Education with Dr. Marvin Lynn

by | Jan 21, 2022 | Podcast, Educators and Workforce, Equity

Join us Sundays at 4:30pm for new episodes of The Early Link Podcast. Listen live at 99.1 FM in the heart of Portland – or online anywhere at PRP.fm

This is a special segment, because it marks the 75th episode of The Early Link Podcast!

Here, host Rafael Otto speaks with Dr. Marvin Lynn who most recently served as the dean at Portland State University’s Graduate School of Education. He has served as dean and professor at universities across the country, and started his career as an elementary and middle school teacher. Also, he has conducted research that explores the work and lives of Black male teachers and the impact of teacher beliefs on Black students. He is an internationally recognized expert on race and education, serves on the board for the American Association of Colleges for Teacher Education, and an elected member and vice chair of the Tigard-Tualatin school board. Additionally, he is an editor for the recently updated Handbook of Critical Race Theory in Education.

 

Guest:

For nearly three decades, Dr. Marvin Lynn has worked as an elementary and middle school teacher and has served as a professor and administrator in institutions of higher education for the last twenty years. He is a nationally recognized expert on race and the education of BIPOC learners. He has published dozens of research articles, book chapters, opinion pieces, and an edited book on these topics. He serves on several state and national boards including the Carnegie Project for the Education Doctorate, the American Association of Colleges for Teacher Education, Providence Hospitals’ Oregon Community Ministry Board, the Oregon Educator Advancement Council, and the Oregon Educator Equity Advisory Group. Dr. Lynn resides in the Bull Mountain area and is married to Adwoa Lynn who is a Registered Nurse at Providence St. Vincent. They are parents to three academically successful and athletically involved boys: Kwabena, Naasei, and Sidney.

 

Summary:

In this segment, Dr. Lynn gives us an update on his sabbatical and his further work on Critical Race Theory (CRT), and discusses the concept of creating an anti-racist lens in the education world. He also covers some of the data on the achievement gap that affects not only students of color, but educators of color in the current system; and how this can be addressed in the early childhood sphere. Additionally, Dr. Lynn speaks to why diversity in this particular workforce is necessary for all, and the current direction of the education profession on that front, and gives his thoughts on what he believes is going on in a national context around CRT. He also talks about his contribution to the the handbook of critical race theory and education (that has recently been updated), and his hopes for the future of education and for our kids in this country.

 

Additional Resources:

 

Critical Race Theory: A Brief History

Transcript

[00:00:00] Rafael Otto: Welcome to the Early Link Podcast on Rafael Otto. Thank you for listening. You can catch us on 99.1 FM in the Portland Metro on Sundays at 4:30 PM. Or Tune in at your convenience, wherever you find your podcasts, including iTunes, Spotify, and Amazon Music. This is a special segment because it marks the 75th episode of the Early Link.

And I want to thank all of our listeners here in Oregon, across the country and internationally for tuning in today. I’m speaking with Dr. Marvin Lynn, who most recently served as the Dean at Portland State University’s Graduate School of Education, has served as Dean and professor at universities across the country, and started his career as an elementary and middle school teacher.

He has also conducted research that explores the work in lives of Black male teachers and the impact of teacher beliefs on Black students. He is an internationally recognized expert on race and education, serves on the board for the American Association of Colleges for Teacher Education, and as an elected member and vice chair of the Tigard-Tualatin school board .

He is also an editor for the recently updated Handbook of Critical Race Theory in Education. 

Marvin, it’s great to have you on the podcast today. Welcome.

[00:01:19] Marvin Lynn: Thank you for having me.

[00:01:22] Rafael Otto: I know that currently you are on sabbatical and I just thought we could start there. Uh, what does that look like today? And I know that you’re spending your time focused on your scholarly work.

So give us an update.

[00:01:34] Marvin Lynn: Yes. So, you know, it couldn’t have come at a better time because just as I was going on sabbatical, the firestorm around critical race theory began nationally. Right. And I remember as, as I was talking about the transition out of the Dean role, I was starting to get some communication from the media about CRT and its existence in the schools.

And I was saying, no, no, no, it’s not really happening in schools, and not paying much attention. I mean, it was like clockwork. As soon as I became professor on sabbatical, I started to get all of this communication from all these major news entities: Fox News, the BBC and Christian Science Monitor. “Hey, what’s going on?”

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Preschool for All Ensures High-Quality Early Learning for Children in Multnomah County

Preschool for All Ensures High-Quality Early Learning for Children in Multnomah County

by | Dec 21, 2021 | Preschool, Child Care

Join us Sundays at 4:30pm for new episodes of The Early Link Podcast. Listen live at 99.1 FM in the heart of Portland – or online anywhere at PRP.fm

On this episode, host Rafael Otto speaks with Leslee Barnes, the director of the Preschool and Early Learning Division at Multnomah County. In that role, she is overseeing the Preschool for All initiative, a program approved by voters in November 2020 that will provide tuition-free, universal preschool for three- and four-year-olds in Multnomah County. The program is being funded by a personal income tax on high income earners and has received significant attention regionally and nationally as a progressive, upstream investment in children and families.

 

Guest:

A fourth-generation Oregonian who grew up in Northeast Portland, Leslee Barnes has deep roots. She attended Irvington Elementary, Harriet Tubman Middle School and then Grant High School. She went on to earn her bachelor’s degree from Warner Pacific University.

While Barnes would go on to build a career in early childhood education, her first job was as a nuclear chemical biological specialist for the United States Army. That was also when her first child was born, and her son was only 8 weeks old when she had to return to work.

In 1999, she founded Village Childcare LLC, a community-based organization that provides early learning and child care services in the Portland metro area. As a provider herself, she learned that child care is more than a service — it’s a business, and both parents and providers have unique needs.

Over the course of her 20-year career, she’s drawn on her experience as a provider to support other educators and entrepreneurs. Barnes’ leadership and work has also focused on racial justice and equity, including as the founding board chair of Black Child Development PDX.

Most recently, as a Spark improvement specialist for the State of Oregon, she helped early childhood programs launch a statewide program that raises the quality of child care. The program connects families to early learning and child care providers and offers coaching, professional development, and resources to providers.

As a participant in the Preschool for All Task Force process, she also shaped the initiative that residents approved in November 2020. The coalition of parents, education experts, nonprofit directors, elected officials, and business leaders met from September 2018 through July 2019. Under the leadership of Commissioner Jessica Vega Pederson, they created a vision for universal preschool in Multnomah County.

 

Summary:

Since Preschool for All passed last November, the podcast begins by discussing its history and Barnes’ connection to the initiative as a whole. The conversation then moves to what was learned throughout the legislation process, and the different degrees of involvement that helped ensure its passage. Following that, Barnes comments on how this initiative will impact future generations in a multitude of ways — from the children in the classrooms, to the communities themselves, and even educators in the workforce.

Barnes then notes the overall goals of Preschool for All and what is needed to realize the scope of the initiative, including developing the workforce and access to physical teaching facilities. Next, the conversation pivots to the Build Back Better plan, its anticipated passage, and its impact on the Oregon education system. Closing out, Barnes gives us a view of the future and how universal preschool will positively affect not only the state, but the country as well.

 

Additional Resources:

Multnomah County Preschool for All: Pathway to Success

Preschool for All Implementation Plan

Preschool for All Reports and Key Documents

Early Learning Multnomah (ELM)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Rafael Otto: This is the Early Link Podcast. I’m Rafael Otto. Thank you for listening. You can always catch us on 99.1 FM in the Portland Metro on Sundays at 4:30 PM, or tune in at your convenience, wherever you find your podcasts, including iTunes, Spotify, and Amazon Music. I’m speaking with Leslee Barnes today, the director of the Preschool and Early Learning Division at Multnomah County.

In that role, she is overseeing the Preschool for All Initiative, a program approved by voters in November of 2020. That will provide tuition free, universal preschool for three- and four- year-olds in Multnomah County. The program is being funded by a personal income tax on high income earners, and has received significant attention regionally and nationally as a progressive upstream investment in children and families.

Leslee, it’s great to have you here today.

[00:00:49] Leslee Barnes: Thanks for having me here this morning. I’m glad to be with you today.

[00:00:52] Rafael Otto: I know Preschool for All passed last November, you took on the leadership role for the county in April of this year. Talk about how you came to be connected to the effort to pass preschool for all. Let’s start there.

[00:01:06] Leslee Barnes: Sure. You know, my work in early learning spans almost 25 years and I was connected to the effort through my work at the CC & R’s. I was supporting family child care providers specifically around what was called Quality Rating and Improvement at the time. And I’ve done similar work in the community. And from the perspective of supporting providers, working at my own child care facility, working at other national chains and just a lot of the advocacy work I’d done on behalf of providers, they reached out to me and said, “Hey, would you like to be a part of one of our work groups to study, like, what are the things that we really need to think about when we’re thinking about high quality early learning for young children in Multnomah County?” So of course, you know, I raised my hand and jumped right in because it’s something that’s been lacking for a long time. And over the span of my career, I’ve really seen how our early learning system has really not supported families or providers.

So I knew I was the perfect person really to be there. Because I’ve got a lot of perspective on that -from a family- as a parent as well. So I brought all that to the table doing that work.

[00:02:11] Rafael Otto: Talk a little bit about the passage of Preschool For All. There was such a sort of ground swell of effort that went into the passage. Lots of parent and family engagement and voice as part of that process. Talk about what that was like.

[00:02:24] Leslee Barnes: I think that’s really groundbreaking, because a lot of times we see systems come in place and they don’t really ask the consumer, what do you really need? And what does this really look like? So to have families there to have the support of community, folks like myself, all the people that really work in the space from schools to private sector childcare, public sector, you know. All those partners had started to be at the table and really think about all the parts. And I feel like we have been siloed for a long time, and it gave us the opportunity to be in the room at the same time; to have a champion at the county in commissioner Vega Pederson. It really was this magical moment where we said, “You know, well, let’s do this right. And let’s not compromise. And let’s really think about equity at the heart of this.” I think that was also very unique in our efforts in really designing this to be successful.

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Friendship on the Spectrum: A Conversation on Autism

Friendship on the Spectrum: A Conversation on Autism

by | Dec 16, 2021 | Health and Development

Join us Sundays at 4:30pm for new episodes of The Early Link Podcast. Listen live at 99.1 FM in the heart of Portland – or online anywhere at PRP.fm.

This week, host Rafael Otto speaks with Jenna Deml, our producer at Portland Radio Project, and two of her lifelong friends, Kai Russell and Justin Semke. All three of them happen to be on the autism spectrum, and today we have a chance to hear their stories – about what it was like growing up on the spectrum, how they have remained friends for so many years, and their experience in the education system right here in Portland.

Guests:

Jenna Deml (she/her) is a podcast producer and radio DJ currently studying for her Master’s in Multimedia Journalism at the University of Oregon Portland campus. Her undergraduate degree was in both Psychology and Theatre Arts from the University of Puget Sound. So it is safe to say Jenna has always had a love for the arts and storytelling. In her free time, she likes to play Dungeons & Dragons, flex her trivia knowledge on a website called Sporcle, create Spotify playlists, watch the entire Studio Ghibli catalog on repeat, pet every cat or dog she sees, or read classic sci-fi/dystopian literature.

Kai Martina Russell (they/them) is native to Portland, Oregon. They hold a degree in English Fiction Writing from Pacific Lutheran University and are employed in the retail industry. Their dream is to write and illustrate (and possibly compose for) an original fantasy/science-fiction extended universe, drawing inspiration from the many roleplaying games they and their friends have acted out over the years. Kai draws meaning in their life from stories, nature, and their beloved friends and family.

Justin Semke (he/him) graduated from the Art Institute of Portland, and has been looking to become an 3D Environmental artist. He is also quite the fan of Kamen Rider, and loves creating stories with friends. He is a staunch optimist and tries to make the people in his life smile whenever possible.

 

Summary:

The three friends begin by recounting how they each met one another at different points throughout elementary school. They then disclose what lead to their diagnoses; what they remember about it, what changed for them, and any struggles they had at the time. The conversation shifts to their respective experiences in the education system here in Portland, and what the institution needs to improve on in order to better serve neurodivergent children. Since Kai identifies as genderfluid, they note and comment on the correlation between neurodivergence and gender-nonconformity, and how this ties in to their own personal journey. Closing out the conversation, the three each state what they would say to their younger selves, and comment on who and what makes them the most empowered to be their truest creative selves.

Additional Resources:

Identity First Language

Asperger, Nazism, and Reclaiming the Autism Spectrum (made by Jenna Deml)

Autistic Women and Nonbinary Network

Transcript

[00:00:00] Rafael Otto: Welcome to the Early Link Podcast. I’m Rafael Otto. Thank you for listening. You can always catch us on 99.1 FM in the Portland Metro on Sundays at 4:30pm or tune in at your convenience, wherever you find your podcasts. That includes iTunes, Spotify, and Amazon Music. Today, I am speaking with Jenna Deml, our fantastic producer at Portland Radio Project, and two of her lifelong friends, Kai Russell, and Justin Semke. All three of them happened to be on the autism spectrum. And today we have a chance to hear their stories about what it was like growing up on the spectrum, how they’ve remained friends for so many years, and their experience in the education system right here in Portland.

Jenna, Kai, and Justin, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you here today.

[00:00:48] Jenna Deml: Yeah. Thanks for having us.

[00:00:50] Kai Russell: Thank you for having us.

[00:00:52] Justin Semke: Thank you so much.

[00:00:53] Rafael Otto: Very much looking forward to the conversation. Jenna, you are all in your twenties now and you’ve known each other since elementary school. Tell me the story about how the three of you got to know each other.

[00:01:06] Jenna Deml: So, I was in second grade. I had just transferred to Edwards Elementary School. It was my first experience in public school. I was getting to know everybody, but I think I’d also just been diagnosed at that point. And I didn’t really, how do I put this? I hadn’t really seen other people like me who had also been diagnosed as on the spectrum. But in class, I remember this particular person who was labeled as a problem child, which was Kai. And in retrospect, I feel like, really bad for how myself and the other kids in the class treated them at that point. Our teacher in particular did not like Kai’s disruptions. Kai, you remember like you would do these like laser battles with your fingers. Was that right?

[00:02:00] Kai Russell: Oh, no, no. Uh, it was… I mean, sure lasers were involved, but it was more of an early form of live action role play, I guess, just using my fingers as puppets or like action figures, kind of. Like I would walk my pointer and middle finger along a table and have that stand in for like a human, I would use the other pointer to give that same, uh, finger person like a sword or something. I would use my arm as all my fingers kind of, coming together, like jaws as… a dinosaur and then maybe put my other arm across it to form wings and make it a dragon.

[00:02:40] Jenna Deml: But what literally everybody else in the class heard was like, *imitates exploding noises* and then our teacher, teacher Nancy, would like, grab Kai by the collar and be like, “Kai, you’re going out in the hall,” or “Kai, you’re going to the office.” And all of the kids in unison would be like, “Kaaaaaai, be quiet.” So that was how initially, like my relationship with Kai was, but…

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First in the Nation Health Metric Aims to Address Social and Emotional Health

First in the Nation Health Metric Aims to Address Social and Emotional Health

by | Dec 16, 2021 | Health and Kindergarten Readiness, Health and Development, Successful Students

Oregon recently took a significant step toward ensuring young children are prepared for kindergarten by focusing on their social and emotional health.  Oregon’s Metrics and Scoring Committee approved a new incentive metric for the 16 Coordinated Care Organizations (CCOs) serving nearly 1.3 million people on the Oregon Health Plan, or 30 percent of the state’s population. 

Development of the metric started in 2018 through a partnership between Children’s Institute, the Oregon Pediatric Improvement Partnership at Oregon Health & Science University, and Oregon Health Authority. 

The metric is designed to shift attention to social-emotional health services for children from birth to age 5, a groundbreaking effort that will help Oregon’s Medicaid system focus on prevention and increased investment in kids. 

Elisabeth Wright Burak, senior fellow at the Center for Children and Families at Georgetown University’s McCourt School of Public Policy, said that no other metric like this exists in the country. “The health care system is not set up to invest a lot in kids and there are almost no incentives to improve preventive services, particularly for young children. Getting a disease-oriented system to work on prevention, that’s innovation, it’s a big boulder to move.”

For CCOs, incentive measures show how well the organizations are “improving care, making quality care accessible, eliminating health disparities, and curbing the rising cost of health care.” The new social-emotional health metric will incentivize CCOs to establish a much improved foundation for health and school readiness that will directly impact communities, families, and children. Incentive funds CCOs receive for making progress on metrics incentives are invested back into the community. 

“Ample research suggests that the first five years of a person’s life are critically important to laying the foundation for long-term social, mental, and physical outcomes,” said Colleen Reuland, director at the Oregon Pediatric Improvement Partnership. 

Elena Rivera, senior health policy advisor at Children’s Institute, said that “early experiences shape the architecture of the brain, so providing services as early as possible will help kids get what they need, and help parents and families support their kids.”

Rivera continued, “We know that from working with parents and families as we developed this metric that this remains a top priority. Families are looking for better programs and stronger relationships with providers. They want culturally- and linguistically-responsive services, assessment, and referrals, and better access to health services, particularly in rural communities.”

Wright Burak said that a focus on social-emotional health means focusing on the social factors that impact health. “We’re not just looking at the needs of the child, we’re looking at the context they’re living in. The health care system hasn’t been great at this historically, and also can’t do it alone.  A dedicated focus on prevention and early intervention can show results for children and their families for years to come.”

Reuland said so few children are getting recommended social and emotional screenings and services they need that there is a tremendous amount of work ahead to get the health system moving in the right direction. “According to services paid for, only 6 percent of children on the Oregon Health Plan get any type of social-emotional health assessment or service related to their social or emotional health,” she said. 

Beginning January 1, 2022 CCOs will start to dig deep to understand and address the gaps in social-emotional health services for children from birth to age 5 in their communities. That will include analyzing current services and working with local providers and early educators to create community-specific action plans by the end of the first year. 

In public testimony, Dana Hargunani, the chief medical officer at the Oregon Health Authority, said the metric is aligned with priorities for the state related to children’s health, behavioral health, and health equity.

“Social emotional development and the connection to health services are key components of our state’s early learning strategic plan, Raise Up Oregon,” she said. “This metric helps to tie together cross sector priorities and efforts in a nicely coordinated approach.”

Additional public testimony provided in support of the metric was the strongest for any metric under consideration for the CCO incentive measure program, and the metric ranked the highest for transformative potential.

Since 2018, Children’s Institute has been working with the Oregon Pediatric Improvement Partnership and Oregon Health Authority to create a set of measures designed to engage the health sector in kindergarten readiness. The first two — dental visits and well-child visits — were adopted as incentive measures for CCOs in 2020. The social-emotional metric is the third in a package of four that is expected to evolve in the years to come.  “Community and family input has been a core part of our work,” Rivera said. “Changing the health system can feel overwhelming and complicated, but parents and families know what they need, and know what their kids need. Their voice and perspective will help make this work transformational.

Behind the scenes, state and national foundations have supported the development of the social-emotional health metric.  Kali Thorne Ladd, chief executive officer at Children’s Institute, said that philanthropy can often serve as a lever for creating lasting change, in this case an unprecedented approach that connects Oregon’s health and education systems. “Foundation support for this multi-year effort will not just improve the lives of young children, but improve health outcomes as our youngest learners get older and move into adulthood.”

State and National Funders Supported the Development of the Social and Emotional Health Metric 

  • The David and Lucile Packard Foundation
  • MJ Murdock Charitable Trust
  • Northwest Health Foundation
  • Oregon Community Foundation
  • W.K. Kellogg Foundation
  • The Ford Family Foundation
  • Silver Family Foundation
  • Maybelle Clark MacDonald Fund
  • Kaiser Permanente

Vision

Children from birth to age 5, and their families, have equitable access to services that support their social-emotional health and are the best match for their needs. 

Purpose

Drive CCOs to address complex system-level factors that impact the services kids and families receive and how they receive them, and for which there may be payment or policy barriers that need to be addressed; Address gaps in existing CCO incentive metric set.

Activities

Build capacity within CCOs for enhanced services, integration of services, cross-sector collaboration, and future measurement opportunities; Use child-level data to guide and inform efforts, assess the sensitivity and specificity of the child-level metric to those efforts.

“In the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic,” Rivera said, “we’ve seen access to crucial health care services weaken. Families are struggling to get their needs met. Fewer children are getting timely immunizations, dental care, well-child visits, and other physical and mental health assessments. Doing this work now is a step in the right direction, a step toward improving health equity for Oregon’s publicly insured children and families.”

Wright Burak said there is palpable interest in how this metric will impact health services for kids. “Oregon has lots of work ahead of it, but everyone is looking at this and is eager to see progress. We hope it serves as a pilot and a blueprint for how to do this in other states.”

Read More

Moving Toward Prevention: Oregon Launches Kindergarten Readiness Metric

Oregon CCOs to focus on improving the social, emotional wellness of young children statewide (OHSU)

Oregon CCOs Prepare To Serve Children’s Social And Emotional Needs (The Lund Report)

Social-Emotional Health Measure Specifications

Addressing Children’s Social-Emotional Health: Update on Development of Attestation Metric

CCO Metrics 2020 Final Report

Health and Learning Initiative at Children’s Institute

Building Relationships and Community through Storytelling, with Dr. Johnny Lake

Building Relationships and Community through Storytelling, with Dr. Johnny Lake

by | Oct 11, 2021 | Educators and Workforce, Community Engagement, Podcast, Equity

Join us Sundays at 4:30pm for new episodes of The Early Link Podcast. Listen live at 99.1 FM in the heart of Portland – or online anywhere at PRP.fm.

This week, host Rafael Otto speaks with Dr. Johnny Lake, an international consultant and trainer on community-building, equity, diversity and leadership with a focus on what youth need, and what our education systems need to better serve students and young people. His scholarship has focused on diversity, race and culture, and personal and organizational growth. And he is a writer and a storyteller who uses story to build relationships.  

Guest:

In addition to the credentials above, Dr. Johnny Lake consults with government, professional and educational agencies and organizations. He is an administrator on special assignment with the Eugene 4J school district and an advocate for needs of at-risk youth and provides teacher training institutes and student learning and leadership opportunities. In addition, Dr. Lake is an internationally recognized writer and storyteller. He holds a bachelor’s degree in history from Willamette University, has a Masters in educational leadership and administration, and received his Ph.D. in educational leadership, policy, management and organization. Dr. Lake is also a former chairman of the State of Oregon Commission on Black Affairs.

Summary:

Dr. Lake opens by sharing stories about his childhood growing up in Tennessee, in particular how his grandmother helped him to realize his true potential. Then, he recalls some of the awkward conversations regarding race that crossed his path upon his move to Oregon more than 3o years ago. Next, he touches on some of tools he uses (especially storytelling) to truly connect and explore diversity, equity and inclusion with the school communities he works with. Among those being Yoncalla, a small rural, predominantly white town here in Oregon. He then talks about the integral role of the teacher in the measured success of the child, some of the essentials of that relationship, and ultimately how this could create ample institutional change.  Dr. Lake concludes with what he hopes will change in the next 30 years, and what it would look like if we truly made progress on equity in the education environment. 

Additional Resources:

Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in Higher Ed and within the classroom

Preparing Staff for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Initiatives

Diversity and Inclusion in K-12 Education

Transcript

[00:00:00] Rafael Otto: Welcome to the Early Link Podcast. I’m Rafael Otto. Thanks for listening. You can always catch us on 99.1 FM in the Portland Metro on Sundays at 4:30pm or tune in at your convenience, wherever you find your podcasts, including iTunes, Spotify, and Amazon Music.

Today, I’m speaking with Dr. Johnny Lake, an international consultant and trainer on community building, equity, diversity, and leadership, with a focus on what youth need and what our education systems need to better serve students and young people. His scholarship has focused on diversity, race and culture and personal and organizational growth. And he is a writer and a storyteller who uses story to build relationships. Johnny, welcome to the podcast today.

[00:00:42] Johnny Lake: Thank you Rafael. I’ve been looking forward to this.

[00:00:45] Rafael Otto: It’s great to have you, I’m looking forward to the conversation. I thought you could start with… because I know your work is grounded in story, and if you could start with the story about how and where you grew up and what education was like at that time.

[00:01:01] Johnny Lake: Yes. I grew up in Tennessee, a small town, about 60 miles from Memphis. I grew up where racial segregation was the norm. I’m actually old enough that I was in racially segregated schools for my first four years where everybody was Black. Teachers were Black. Principal was Black. Janitor was Black. PE teacher was Black. Everybody was Black. So, questions about race, especially compared to white people, didn’t even come up because the white school, about a mile away, had all white kids, all white teachers, everything else. My whole family had attended those same schools, where the books we had were the throw away books from the white school.

We never got new books. We got the books that had been discarded. I talked to my auntie who was 90 some years old, and I asked her about schools and she says, ” They didn’t give us money for schools.” I said, “They didn’t give you money. How did you have schools?” She said, “We donated money and hired a teacher for our children.”

I said, “What about books, auntie?” And she gave me another incredulous look, “Books?” she said, “They didn’t ever give us books either baby.” I said, “Where did you get books, auntie?” She said when they throw away the books at the white school, the shoe man downtown would collect the discarded books. And she says the Black people would go downtown to the shoe man to buy books for their children.

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